WAAS versus non-WAAS

[Terry Carraway]

One of the aircraft I am looking at has a 530, that may be non-WAAS.

Should that affect the decision on that aircraft and how?

Thanks

[Scott Dyer HPN/NY]

You will not be able to do RNAV approaches with any vertical guidance, or LP approaches, with the non-WAAS box, and Garmin is no longer doing conversions of 530s to 530Ws. You can still fly ILSs with vertical guidance. If you want RNAV approaches with vertical guidance (e.g., LNAV+V, LNAV/VNAV/LPV, or LP, you will have to buy/install a WAAS box of some sort.

If someone flies IFR regularly, and especially for trips, a WAAS box is pretty important. For basic VFR flying, it's not. I have clients with a non-WAAS box and they are ok with it but they don't do serious trips.

How a non-WAAS GPS box affects price...it should probably not be much any of an add on the basic airframe price as the 530 is now a pretty old navigator and it is limited. The decision should mostly focus on whether you want WAAS and what that will cost you for a post-purchase installation for good IFR capability

[Terry Carraway]

I passed on that aircraft. And chose one with a WAAS 430 and a Garmin G500 glass panel.

[Scott Dyer HPN/NY]

Autopilot?

Are you used to the GTN operating logic (430/530)? If not, MIke Jesch and Son-of-M (aka Brian Schiff) have a series of videos on it that will, ahem, keep you riveted in your nap chair for hours...this is the first. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8iAdGM_GK8

[Terry Carraway]

The T-34 I used to fly had a 430. The CAP C-182 I am flying (as well as the rental 172s) have 400s.

And I am checked out in the G1000.

[Scott Dyer HPN/NY]

Very good, Terry.

[Terry Carraway]

Now trying to decide (assuming deal does through on this one) whether to do the 530 t0 530W for now, or bite the bullet and just put in a 750Xi.

I expect, over time I will put in a G3X/G5 combo, so maybe just upgrade the GPS to start.

Also, any thoughts, comments, suggestions on whether long term a 750/650 combo makes sense. Do you really need that much capability in the back up?

[A. Niemyer]

FWIW, I moved up to GTN650s about 2012 or so. They made a significant improvement in single-pilot IFR workload and systems management in high-workload environments. Last summer, I took advantage of a good deal and had them replaced with 650Xis, which use the new dual-processor architecture that is now Garmin’s standard for both the 650 & 750 platform. I’m very glad I made the change and will enhance their usefulness in the future with adding a Garmin GI-275 as my backup AI. It becomes a mini-PFD and talks to the Xi platforms. The 750, as you know, eliminates a couple of panel boxes by use of its own IFF control box, etc.

If you intend to make this your long-term aircraft, then tailor it as best you can afford. Do the 750Xi if you can. BTW, if you’re looking for a shop, Dave Featherston’s shop, NexAir up in Massachusetts is one of the very best on the eastern seaboard. (He may try to talk you into going with the Avidyne IFD’s. Not a bad option)

One last word: Every time you fly without ANR, you’re doing harm to your hearing. That’s been proven, over and over. I’ve flown with ANR’s since the 90’s and have never “missed hearing” my engine once. I seriously damaged my hearing in the 70’s-90’s, courtesy of Pratt & Whitney and Allison and the lousy noise suppression we had in every flight helmet I wore. Just my $0.02-worth of hearing protection advocacy. Once it’s gone, it’s gone and I have the VA Disability rating to prove it.

Warm regards,
Andy

[Scott Dyer HPN/NY]

I don’t think that you particularly need a second GPS in the panel, if you have either a 530 WAA S or a 750. I’d rather just go with a basic VHF nav/comm radio which will help provide some modicum of radio navigation in the event that either your main navigator goes down or there is jamming or other problems with the GPS constellation. You will have ample opportunity to display traffic and/or weather on the G3x system that you will probably move to, putting it on a 650 is not important in my book in this configuration.

While I am an ardent convert to WAAS, I have yet to find that the old 750 (or 530w for that matter) lacks anything in the way of processor speed, or that more colors are somehow better.

[Terry Carraway]

FWIW, I moved up to GTN650s about 2012 or so. They made a significant improvement in single-pilot IFR workload and systems management in high-workload environments. Last summer, I took advantage of a good deal and had them replaced with 650Xis, which use the new dual-processor architecture that is now Garmin’s standard for both the 650 & 750 platform. I’m very glad I made the change and will enhance their usefulness in the future with adding a Garmin GI-275 as my backup AI. It becomes a mini-PFD and talks to the Xi platforms. The 750, as you know, eliminates a couple of panel boxes by use of its own IFF control box, etc.

If you intend to make this your long-term aircraft, then tailor it as best you can afford. Do the 750Xi if you can. BTW, if you’re looking for a shop, Dave Featherston’s shop, NexAir up in Massachusetts is one of the very best on the eastern seaboard. (He may try to talk you into going with the Avidyne IFD’s. Not a bad option)

One last word: Every time you fly without ANR, you’re doing harm to your hearing. That’s been proven, over and over. I’ve flown with ANR’s since the 90’s and have never “missed hearing” my engine once. I seriously damaged my hearing in the 70’s-90’s, courtesy of Pratt & Whitney and Allison and the lousy noise suppression we had in every flight helmet I wore. Just my $0.02-worth of hearing protection advocacy. Once it’s gone, it’s gone and I have the VA Disability rating to prove it.

Warm regards,
Andy

Do you see the benefit to having two 650s? Or a 750/650?

As for noise, based on what I can find on noise levels, normal passive headsets get you down in the 80 dB range, and lower in the speech ranges. Muck of cockpit noise is low frequency.

Another data point, my hearing got BETTER over my year in UPT. I was religious about wear ear plugs under my helmet.

[Terry Carraway]

Scott,

That was what I was thinking. And most times, there will be at least one iPad with ForeFlight available to navigate if GPS is up, but the panel box goes down.

I think a 530W does most everything, but looking at life span. That is why thinking of putting in the 750Xi, so it will be supported for a lot longer than a 530W.

So maybe, first step is GDL-50R for ADSB in (it has a GTX 335), go with the 750Xi. Keep the King nav/com, and jump to a G3X with G5 backup. Have to see if that is affordable.

[A. Niemyer]

Terry,
I did an early 430 install back in the 90’s, and went to a 530/430 system in my Seneca. I’ve had dual GPS NAV/COM systems ever since then. Plus I now fly with a dual EFB (iPad/iPad-Mini). Then again, I was a tactical jet Nav by profession, so the more, the better. YMMV, of course. (My DFC-90 likes flying WAAS approaches even more than it likes ILS)

Your ears, your choice, by all means. Just recall what I noted: Once it’s gone, it’s gone. All you can do is enhance the reception on your remaining hearing. I too wore plugs, etc. Just how it goes.

Good luck on whatever systems you chose to install, I know they’ll serve you very well!

Warm regards,
Andy

[Scott Dyer HPN/NY]

Scott,

That was what I was thinking. And most times, there will be at least one iPad with ForeFlight available to navigate if GPS is up, but the panel box goes down.

I think a 530W does most everything, but looking at life span. That is why thinking of putting in the 750Xi, so it will be supported for a lot longer than a 530W.

So maybe, first step is GDL-50R for ADSB in (it has a GTX 335), go with the 750Xi. Keep the King nav/com, and jump to a G3X with G5 backup. Have to see if that is affordable.

Agreed on 530W lifespan, might as well get the newer model. ADS-B in is very useful, look at upgrading the 335 to a 345….I have the latter and it’s quite good at in and out, but I also a,m changing call signs fairly frequently and it is easy on the 345.

The plan seems workable to me.

What audio panel will you have? I’m a big fan of PS equipment, like it better than the Garmin.