Instrument approaches on I-pad

[Andy Alson]

Of course the ipad isn't certified as an instrument. I was only commenting on the accuracy of it's position information in the app, not whether it could be used as the sole navigation source.

And as to Larry's response, the situation posited was that the GPS unit in the plane didn't have a current database and therefore couldn't be used for approach navigation, so use the ipad. Not that the certified GPS in the plane wasn't giving accurate position data.

[Bill Bridges]

When we use the ipad in our Mooney it's getting its position through the Garmin transponder which is getting its position information from our WAAS GNS430W. So the position accuracy there is just as good as what our flight instruments are using for navigation. Others who are using the internal GPS in the ipad won't have as much accuracy.

Andy,

Is the Ipad a certified part of the instrument package?

[Larry sreyoB]

When we use the ipad in our Mooney it's getting its position through the Garmin transponder which is getting its position information from our WAAS GNS430W. So the position accuracy there is just as good as what our flight instruments are using for navigation. Others who are using the internal GPS in the ipad won't have as much accuracy.

If you have a WAAS GPS navigator you wouldn't need to fly an approach with just an iPad. Not sure I understand why someone with certified navigator would navigate with the iPad.

[Andy Alson]

Also, there's no way to know that the iPad's accuracy is not within the required navigation performance for the route flown. People like you 'friend', just assume that GPS is always perfect. It isn't.

When we use the ipad in our Mooney it's getting its position through the Garmin transponder which is getting its position information from our WAAS GNS430W. So the position accuracy there is just as good as what our flight instruments are using for navigation. Others who are using the internal GPS in the ipad won't have as much accuracy.

[Jeff Hartmann]

you 'friend',.... I know you meant Your 'friend'...

[Larry sreyoB]

Also, there's no way to know that the iPad's accuracy is not within the required navigation performance for the route flown. People like you 'friend', just assume that GPS is always perfect. It isn't.

[Dave Siciliano]

Larry: I've had them completely shut down when using them for charts; not navigation. I carry two. Situation awareness and charts is what I refer to them for, but we had a Garmin 430 a 530 both WAAS and a GMX 200. With current data bases I might add.

[Larry sreyoB]

Here's an example of one of the reasons you don't use iPads for navigation.

Notice how the iPad is showing us off course in both images. We were not. We were exactly on course as indicated on our legally TSOd long-range navigation system.

If we were trying to fly the procedure via the iPad, we would have been off course.

[Dave Siciliano]

I’ve chatted with a couple folks and have decided to move on. If he asks, I’ll respond.

[Russell Holton]

Since I’m not an instructor and not his Uncle, I just left it there. I feel a need to help him understand, but I'm not making any headway.

Have you considered letting him go as a student?

[Dave Siciliano]

Moving off topic a bit, I had a pro pilot scare the bejesus out of me demoing a plane. 15,000 hour instructor. Couldn't get the loc or GS centered on an ILS at one place and had the entire approach suspend at another. Luckily, ceilings weren't at minimums and he was able to break out visually. Great stick but simply didn't know the boxes or how to fly them. I sympathize with folks flying a lot of different planes with different avionics, but for heaven's sake, know enough to make a safe approach when taking passengers. He was embarrassed but when I suggested he really get to know those boxes before flying IMC again, I didn't get any response. I offered to go up with him VFR if he wanted to practice. No response. I really worry about folks with this approach to flying.

[Dave Siciliano]

I sent Larry’s cite to the fella and he’s completely discounted it.
initial response:
Yes, they are certified for international navigation and to shoot actual approaches. You can even fly the North Atlantic Tracks with them.
when I sent Larry’s cite, the response was:

AIM is not the actual Code of Federal Regulations; it is only parts of it. You have to go very deep into the Code to find the connection but it is there. Here is the link to Summit Aviation. They are THE ABSOLUTE knowledge base of Aviation. On every one of their discs is a copy of The Constitution. EVERYTHING comes from that document; and the Declaration of Independence.

Since I’m not an instructor and not his Uncle, I just left it there. I feel a need to help him understand, but I'm not making any headway.

[Bill Bridges]

About 7 years ago, when I was flying out of your favorite airport mOnroe, NC. The guy I worked for had 2 King Airs. The 300 had an older GPS, worked fine KLN 90B, the other, a 90 model had no GPS. One day he lands in the 90 during that extended time when the ILS was out... I asked him how he got in with the weather as it was, he said he shot the GPS, on his I Pad! I told it that was maybe not such a good idea. He didn't see any problem with it, not sure if he did it again or not.

You would think after what happened with Rick the word would have gotten out.

[Jeff Hartmann]

An arrogant pilot? I've never heard of such a thing!

About 7 years ago, when I was flying out of your favorite airport mOnroe, NC. The guy I worked for had 2 King Airs. The 300 had an older GPS, worked fine KLN 90B, the other, a 90 model had no GPS. One day he lands in the 90 during that extended time when the ILS was out... I asked him how he got in with the weather as it was, he said he shot the GPS, on his I Pad! I told it that was maybe not such a good idea. He didn't see any problem with it, not sure if he did it again or not.

[Bill Bridges]

An arrogant pilot? I've never heard of such a thing!

All to often we get to read about them.

😞