Back to the Future - VOR Radials

[Scott Dyer HPN/NY]

I've been working with some new instrument students on VOR orientation/tracking (yes, we do that, before going on to GPS), and it's fun. Today, I actually got an instrument clearance to "intercept the 359 degree radial from XYZ and track it inbound". Whoo hoo! And here I thought I was teaching totally outmoded systems, to get them ready for the day GPS fails and all they have is the MON VORs. <G>

[Ralph Jones]

the day GPS fails and all they have is the MON VORs

The horror...;-)

[Randy Sohn]

And here I thought I was teaching totally outmoded systems

Scott, you made me recall an instrument clearance I recieved once from the Ft. William/Port Arthur (Thunder Bay now) radio while proceeding back to Duluth via the SW leg of their LFR radio range.. "North Central XXX, remain well to the right side of your outbound course, inbound traffic at your altitude on that airway". Chuckle.....dah-dit, dah-dit, dah-dit, dah-dit, etc.

best, randy

[Tom Charlton]

Scott, you made me recall . . . while proceeding back to Duluth via the SW leg of their LFR radio range . . .

Randy, you made me recall couple of years ago, me’n Dick Merrill scout’n out the site of the old Duluth LFR radio range.
Sure glad I didn’t have to depend on fly’n the “range” to find my way. T’was a bit before my time<g>. Yet . . . sure would like to’ve been able to have sampled it.

My dad was a Link Instructor at a B-29 training base in Kansas. I still have his Army Air Corps training books that I grew up reading. Lot’a good stuff in them on fly’n the “range”. Perhaps I’ll pack’m along for the upcoming Dilute gig?

Regards,
Tom Charlton

[John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]

I've been working with some new instrument students on VOR orientation/tracking (yes, we do that, before going on to GPS), and it's fun.

Well, I don't know about "fun." The FCM VOR was moved about 1/2 mile off the airport a few years back. Heading outbound on the 235 radial will get us over a grass strip southwest of the airport where I often based our airwork. On most practice flights with instrument students, I'll have them intercept that radial and fly outbound. On return, I have them center it up for a bit inbound.

Speaking of things that supposedly happen rarely -- I had a current student up Sunday afternoon for his first IMC. We received a hold over the IAF at our destination as it was a non-towered field with no radar coverage, and, frankly, lousy ATC radio coverage - only 40 miles NE of MSP! We ended up having to relay from the other aircraft to ATC. This was at KOEO - Osceola, WI.

[Randy Sohn]

site of the old Duluth LFR radio range.......at a B-29 training base in Kansas

Used to be about a half mile south of the DLH airport.

Also, used to be two kinds of LFR stations, the old "loop" kind (poles with wires strung between them, would sway in the wind) and the more modern (chuckle) "Adcock" range (5 metal poles, orange and white).

Pratt?

best, randy

[Scott Dyer HPN/NY]

Speaking of things that supposedly happen rarely -- I had a current student up Sunday afternoon for his first IMC. We received a hold over the IAF at our destination as it was a non-towered field with no radar coverage, and, frankly, lousy ATC radio coverage - only 40 miles NE of MSP! We ended up having to relay from the other aircraft to ATC. This was at KOEO - Osceola, WI.

John -- Good stuff...your student will pay more attention to the possibility of holding given this experience early on.

This ADS-B thing is supposed to largely solve that radar coverage issue....were you talked to Center or the tracon? I'm hearing that the ARTCCs are better able to take advantage of ADS-B position reporting at this time as the conversion hasn't filtered down to the approach controls so much.

I wish I'd had a student with me yesterday...and, like yours, mine was in a major metro area (BOS).

[Tom Charlton]

Pratt?

Hi Randy,
Nope, Great Bend.
Back about fifteen years ago was doing initial training on the Cessna 208 with Flight Safety in Wichita. Had a couple’a free days so drove the two hours northwest to Great Bend. Tried to imagine what it might’a been like back in the day. Nice memorial display at the entrance of the old airbase.

Regards,
Tom Charlton

[Randy Sohn]

[QUOTE=Tom Charlton;n5096] so drove the two hours northwest to Great Bend. Tried to imagine what it might’a been like/QUOTE]

Ah-so, was there twice. First one I flew an Apache (PA-23) charter up there from LBB, then back to Wes-Tex A/C aster the funeral.

Then got stuck there overnight once withe Globe Swift on my way back up here while on a leave from REE. Still can recall finding that aiport just north of that river while in HEAVY rain, scaired half to death! As best I recall, about a 1/2 mile viz when I landed and a guy comes out from the CAA?/FAA? ground radio station there to ask me exactly what the devil I was doing? Again, IIRC, my legs wherfe shaking uncontrollably, I was really scaried and worn out when I parkedi. Aftet hearing my story he sez - "Well, you're too GD'd dumb to even violate". I remember staying overnight there with he and his wife/family. Statute of limitations, now, I guess!

best, randy

[Larry sreyoB]

This ADS-B thing is supposed to largely solve that radar coverage issue....

I crossed the Gulf of Mexico in an ADS-B equipped plane from Cancun to Chicago. We were in radar contact the whole way while most of the flights around us were not and were giving position reports. Completely seamless from our end.

[B.Butler]

Used to be about a half mile south of the DLH airport.

Also, used to be two kinds of LFR stations, the old "loop" kind (poles with wires strung between them, would sway in the wind) and the more modern (chuckle) "Adcock" range (5 metal poles, orange and white
best, randy

I always thought "Adcock radiator" was sorta poetic.

[Bill Bridges]

I crossed the Gulf of Mexico in an ADS-B equipped plane from Cancun to Chicago. We were in radar contact the whole way while most of the flights around us were not and were giving position reports. Completely seamless from our end.

My simulator has Real Traffic which takes live traffic and displays it as an aircraft on my sim. I did a recent trip from GCM (Cayman Islands) to DFW. I was about 3 minutes behind an AAL B738 and was able to follow him/her all the way to DFW on TCAS and visual. Real Traffic uses ADS-B, not sure what his source is. The only difference is about a 30 second delay from the actual aircraft.

[Randy Sohn]

I crossed the Gulf of Mexico

Wow, sure beats the alternative! <g>

best, randy

[Scott Dyer HPN/NY]

I crossed the Gulf of Mexico in an ADS-B equipped plane from Cancun to Chicago. We were in radar contact the whole way while most of the flights around us were not and were giving position reports. Completely seamless from our end.

The Gulf of Mexico is certainly a big area for the benefits of ADS-B to be realized (mostly oil rig flying,but obviously overflights as well).

[John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]

...were you talked to Center or the tracon?

I was talking to Center. There was almost no voice communication available. They must have a remote transmitter out of service, or something, in addition to no radar coverage there. We were in an ADS-B IN/OUT equipped aircraft.