Commercial ACS: Power-off 180° Accuracy Approach and Landing

[John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]

Scott Dyer HPN/NY - Did you practice these in your C210? Curious if you attempted to lower the gear after reducing power to idle in the downwind at pattern altitude?

https://www.faa.gov/training_testing...rplane_acs.pdf (Section IV. M)

We'd been practicing these in the C172, as my student will be using two aircraft for the test. She reasoned that she might be requested to do the Power-off 180° in the more complex aircraft, so we tried a few in the C210 yesterday. We first started with reducing power to idle in the downwind, and then lowering the gear. We could never reach the runway successfully, and had to add power. If we lower the gear ahead of the power reduction, it worked out OK.

I reasoned that the ACS doesn't require the gear lowering to be done after simulated power loss, and that she's always going to have her gear down before entering the pattern anyway, so that was going to be acceptable to the examiner to have the gear down ahead of that maneuver.

Just curious if you've tried it. The altitude lose when lowering that gear will get your attention. I assume it is the gear doors acting as big speed brakes.

John

[Tom Charlton]

Scott Dyer HPN/NY - Did you practice these in your C210? Curious if you attempted to lower the gear after reducing power to idle in the downwind at pattern altitude?

https://www.faa.gov/training_testing...rplane_acs.pdf (Section IV. M)

We'd been practicing these in the C172, as my student will be using two aircraft for the test. She reasoned that she might be requested to do the Power-off 180° in the more complex aircraft, so we tried a few in the C210 yesterday. We first started with reducing power to idle in the downwind, and then lowering the gear. We could never reach the runway successfully, and had to add power . . . The altitude lose when lowering that gear will get your attention. I assume it is the gear doors acting as big speed brakes.

Hi John,

Flying a number of C-206 aircraft for a bunch of years I often encouraged any pilots working for me to practice a pretend engine out approach when arriving back at the home-drome whenever practical. Both 210 and 206 when you chop the power at pattern altitude, even on a close in downwind, best start a turn toward touchdown point right quick else ya ain’t gon’n’a make it. Must say: the practice paid dividends more than once over the years.

Regards,
Tom Charlton

[Bill Bridges]

From day one of my military, fixed wing training every landing was a power off, full flap, full stall landing.

[Scott Dyer HPN/NY]

Scott Dyer HPN/NY - Did you practice these in your C210? Curious if you attempted to lower the gear after reducing power to idle in the downwind at pattern altitude?
John

Hi John -- I did 'em for my commercial in an Archer, and for the CFI in a Gutless. Back many years ago, when I owned an Ulvade T210L, I did them for practice: Power to idle abeam the touchdown point, an immediate turn to base with gear lowering on base, and then full flaps on final. Without an immediate base right abeam the approach end of the runway...and a close in downwind...no way to make it.

I agree with you, the a/c can be configured with gear down before the power reduction. The fewer variables on the accuracy landing the better...the daily difference in wind is enough of a headache!

[Bill Bridges]

Power to idle abeam the touchdown point, an immediate turn to base with gear lowering on base, and then full flaps on final.

It was very similar in helicopters in the military, we were doing autorotations to the ground from day one. By the time we had ten hours we were doing 180s to the ground. I guess there is lots of difference between my world and the civilian world?

[Scott Dyer HPN/NY]

It was very similar in helicopters in the military, we were doing autorotations to the ground from day one. By the time we had ten hours we were doing 180s to the ground. I guess there is lots of difference between my world and the civilian world?

I'm sure we just don't measure up, Bill. I wasn't trying to be competitive about flying skills.

[John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]

Back many years ago, when I owned an Ulvade T210L...

So if I parsed that correctly that was a C210 without the gear doors. I believe there was less drag since you didn't have main gear doors extending into the slip stream during the gear extension.

[Scott Dyer HPN/NY]

So if I parsed that correctly that was a C210 without the gear doors. I believe there was less drag since you didn't have main gear doors extending into the slip stream during the gear extension.

John -- 'xactly. I prefer having the doors (but they do add a lot of drag when operating....a good lesson on short field climbouts).

[Bill Bridges]

I'm sure we just don't measure up, Bill. I wasn't trying to be competitive about flying skills.

Mr. Dyer,

My apologies. It was not my intentions to compare flying skills, I just trying to get a feel for the differences in learning to fly in the military as opposed to the civilian world.

I will not make that mistake again.

You folks have a good evening.

Grace and Peace,

Bill Bridges

[Russell Holton]

I just trying to get a feel for the differences in learning to fly in the military as opposed to the civilian world.

I'd imagine that there was a very different risk threshold between the two worlds. Particularly with a shooting war going on. Civilians only had to worry about mechanical failure.

[John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]

John -- 'xactly. I prefer having the doors (but they do add a lot of drag when operating....a good lesson on short field climbouts).

Yes, I'm a big fan of the gear doors as well. Our mechanic is well-versed in keeping them in tip-top shape, but he tells us they will definitely last longer if we get the club to slow down more before opening them. So - while the POH allows dropping the gear at 140 knots, we teach to get below 130 to drop the gear.

[Scott Dyer HPN/NY]

Yes, I'm a big fan of the gear doors as well. Our mechanic is well-versed in keeping them in tip-top shape, but he tells us they will definitely last longer if we get the club to slow down more before opening them. So - while the POH allows dropping the gear at 140 knots, we teach to get below 130 to drop the gear.

John -- I keep it slower than 140 for the gear, too....120-130 works for me most of the time, but I'll do 140 in rare cases when I have to keep the speed up at a major airport (usually just BOS for me) in order to do 140 until short final.

[Stephanie Belser]

It was very similar in helicopters in the military, we were doing autorotations to the ground from day one. By the time we had ten hours we were doing 180s to the ground. I guess there is lots of difference between my world and the civilian world?

Such as the consequences for breaking one? The 351st Training Command isn't going to be disestablished for breaking a few TH-67s. But if Amy's Flight School and Small Engine Repair, LLC breaks a few R-44s, the insurance companies may effectively run her out of business.

[Bill Bridges]

Such as the consequences for breaking one?

I break one and I'm gone. My next assignment is back to RVN and most likely back on Fuller or Alpha-4, if not CCN.

[Russell Holton]

I break one and I'm gone. My next assignment is back to RVN and most likely back on Fuller or Alpha-4, if not CCN.

Yeah, but that's the student's problem - not the school's problem.