Navy pilot who shot down R MIGs

[Jeff Hartmann]

I believe he was flying an F9F.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_F9F_Panther

Exactly, Ray was responding to my post about the video, where in the dogfight sequences, they showed 2 or 3 different types, unrelated to the story.

[Dave Siciliano]

Agree, the vid could be confusing to folks without your calibrated eye ;-)

[Dave Siciliano]

Looks like that had an engine with 5,000 pounds of thrust. The Citation II I flew had two with 2,500 pounds each. :-)

[Dave Siciliano]

Looks like the max gross weight of the Panther was 19,500. The Citation I flew was just over 14,000.

[Rod Madsen]

Maybe that Citation had better performance than the F9F. I'll bet it did.

[B.Butler]

Maybe that Citation had better performance than the F9F. I'll bet it did.

Certainly faster spool-up. Very few ramp-strikes in the Citation.

[Terry Carraway]

Looks like that had an engine with 5,000 pounds of thrust. The Citation II I flew had two with 2,500 pounds each. :-)

The early jets were NOT over powered.

But what I see is the prototype had 5000 pounds of thrust. The production aircraft had 6250.

And yes, centrifugal compressor engine would spool up VERY slowly, especially from idle. J-69 in the T-37 could take 10 seconds from idle to full power. One thing you checked during preflight was the actual spool up times for the engines in the aircraft you were going to fly. I remember 6 seconds was common.

The T-37 had thrust attenuators to allow you to keep the RPM up around 60% for faster response.

[Scott Dyer HPN/NY]

The T-37 had thrust attenuators to allow you to keep the RPM up around 60% for faster response.

How do they work, Terry?

[Ray Tackett]

Looks like the max gross weight of the Panther was 19,500. The Citation I flew was just over 14,000.

That's because you didn't order the quad .20 mount, plus ammo and fire control system.

[Tom Charlton]

Looks like that had an engine with 5,000 pounds of thrust. The Citation II I flew had two with 2,500 pounds each. :-)

Hi Dave,
Likely the Citation drinks considerably less kerosene also<g>.

Regards,
Tom Charlton

[Dave Siciliano]

Kinda fun to compare some business GA aircraft today to past war birds. Brings out the Walter Mitty in us :-)

[Terry Carraway]

How do they work, Terry?

When the speed brake is deployed, and you reduce the throttles below 60% RPM (IIRC), there are small panels behind the engines that pop out and deflect the thrust sideways

Here is a drawing of one deployed.

When deployed, you kept the engines spooled up, but reduced the thrust. When you got good with the jet, you would "play" the attenuators. Popping them in and out with small throttle movements, without really changing the throttle setting.

[Terry Carraway]

That's because you didn't order the quad .20 mount, plus ammo and fire control system.

And armor plate. And ejection seat. And .....

[Randy Sohn]

1. The early jets were NOT over powered


2. keep the RPM up around 60% for faster response.

re #1 Chuckle, like someone once had said - "NS, L"

and #2 When i was first checked out in the T-33 I distinctly reall being strongly advised/told to - "keep your RPMs up on final so you'll have some response if you need the power!"

best, randy

[Scott Dyer HPN/NY]

Thanks, Terry.