CAS from armed Caravans?

[Dave Siciliano]

Lots of speculation.

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-u-s-air-forces-most-secretive-squadron-c6bacc520562

https://www.foxnews.com/tech/us-special-operations-arms-surveillance-aircraft-for-precision-attack

[Ray Tackett]

I buy the STOL capability in and out of "unimproved" fields, but gunship? A REAL gun, like the main armament of the A-10, would likely shake the Caravan apart and/or the recoil would stall it. Compared to the A-10, a real CAS airplane, the Caravan is way too slow and unmaneuverable. That gives the enemy a much better chance to return fire. I'm not even sure a Caravan is as fast as a Skyraider, another great CAS airplane. IMO part of airplane-administered CAS is to be gone before the enemy knows you're coming. I don't think the Caravan is fast enough to do that.

I'd like to read what Those Who Know think of a Caravan in comparison to a helicopter gunship.

[Ralph Jones]

Well, maybe you don't need an A-10 size gun against the kind of armor you'd see in a Third World environment -- but yes, if insertion/extraction is in the mix, I don't see why a helo wouldn't be better.

[Russell Holton]

Well, maybe you don't need an A-10 size gun against the kind of armor you'd see in a Third World environment

Like a bunch of guys in the back of a Toyota pickup? Just hope one of them doesn't have a missile.

I'm suspecting the desire here is being able to fire without having to wait for help. By the time help arrives, the targets will have spotted the spotter and made themselves scarce. Having some firepower now may be better than superior firepower later.

[Ralph Jones]

Just hope one of them doesn't have a missile.

Hmm...wonder how MANPADs do against piston aircraft.

[Russell Holton]

Hmm...wonder how MANPADs do against piston aircraft.

Good question. Looking at the Wiki article on the MANPADs, it appears that the most likely ones they've have access to are the infrared homing type. But I have no clue if it could lock into the IR signature of a turbo prop.

[Dave Siciliano]

Ralph: this seems to address than on page 15.

https://media.defense.gov/2019/Apr/11/2002115503/-1/-1/0/37MANPADS.PDF

[Ralph Jones]

IR signature of a turbo prop.

Oops, saw Cessna and thought "piston"...yeah, it should handle that.

[Russell Holton]

Oops, saw Cessna and thought "piston"...yeah, it should handle that.

And I was thinking of Randy's comments about how turbine was so much better for operations. So I did a quick check.

[Terry Carraway]

Why not a Caravan?

O-2s (Cessna Skymaster) have been used in low threat arenas.

Not a 30 mm, but gun pods with either an M60 or Minigun. Both of them fire the 7.62x51 NATO round.

Also rocket pods.

We can talk in Duluth.

[Dave Siciliano]

I think this is more for CAS in smaller, localized actions where more immediate response is needed for smaller targets. That’s how Army armed helos started. As actions got bigger, against conventional forces, different platforms made more sense.

[Dave Siciliano]

I didn’t realize how much the Stinger was used in Afghanistan.
This gives perspective.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wobG_68P_LE&feature=youtu.be

[Russell Holton]

I think this is more for CAS in smaller, localized actions where more immediate response is needed for smaller targets. That’s how Army armed helos started. As actions got bigger, against conventional forces, different platforms made more sense.

Conversely, the platforms used successfully in the bigger actions may not be the best tool when a new conflict arises and you're back in a smaller action. As my friend likes to say, "the right tool for the right job." What works against an organized military may not work against smaller groups.

[Dave Siciliano]

Caravan is highly dependable, has a good useful load and can loiter for a long time. I don’t know what they’re fitting the with for military ops, but I would thing connectivity for coordination and sensors along with weaponry.

[Bill Bridges]

The latest generation of shoulder fired missiles only needs a reflection off the windshield and it's got-cha.