Magenta Lines

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  • Magenta Lines

    So, I see this rusty instrument-rated pilot who I'm tuning up on instruments spending a bunch of time looking at the GPS moving map when he's looking to intercept a course, and also to maintain his course when established. I turn off the map and suggest that he use the (digital) HSI. He says that his instructor for the instrument rating encouraged him to use the moving map to steer by.

    Good grief. And I wondered why in prior sessions he was so ragged flying raw VOR data (without the GPS being direct to the VOR waypoint).

    And this other instructor guy is still out there actively instructing instruments.

  • #2
    Hmm,maybe a word with local examiners.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Scott Dyer HPN/NY View Post
      Good grief. And I wondered why in prior sessions he was so ragged flying raw VOR data (without the GPS being direct to the VOR waypoint).
      Might benefit from some time using some of the online navigation simulators. Spend time practicing the old-style tracking skills.


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      • #4
        Scott,

        Told here before, but may help make your point with Rusty Student:

        IFR/IMC going to KPNE from KAGC, I got sent off V12, direct LRP, ... I tuned and idented LRP, which is co-located with KLNS, and has the same name, "Lancaster". Being too familiar with the area, I plugged "LNS" (note the missing "K"), and not the less-familiar "LRP" into the yoke mount GPS. GPS and VOR courses diverged by about 5 degrees. I decided to stay with the VOR needle, figuring that's what the controller at Harrisburg Approach expected. Good thing I did.

        Flying along, the VOR/GPS divergence increased slightly, while I was expecting a decrease.as I got closer. Then I took a another look at the GPS. I still had 4000+ NM to fly to the LNS NDB in Brazil.

        As Radny says, "Pay 'tenshun, Lt!"
        Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here, we should dance.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Ray Tackett View Post
          As Radny says, "Pay 'tenshun, Lt!"
          Chuckle, yup, sure's been good advice (and sometimes even muttered to myself).

          best, randy

          Comment


          • #6
            I instruct my students to use all available information. Of course, need to make sure they can do it without the moving map, but if the moving map is there, intercept angle is very clearly displayed and it is a shame to see people NOT using it when it is there.

            PS - I also use calculators.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Larry sreyoB View Post
              Might benefit from some time using some of the online navigation simulators. Spend time practicing the old-style tracking skills.

              Larry -- Yes, that's good. We did spend a fair bit of time on good-old no moving map VOR nav so he got sharper that way. But when we transitioned back to the GPS with the map, the map was all-consuming.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by John O'Shaughnessy [FCM
                ;n12822]I instruct my students to use all available information. Of course, need to make sure they can do it without the moving map, but if the moving map is there, intercept angle is very clearly displayed and it is a shame to see people NOT using it when it is there.

                PS - I also use calculators.
                Calculators? Why? An airborne abacus works just fine.

                I doubt that your students are fixating on the map to determine when to turn for the intercept to the exclusion of watching the HSI......

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ray Tackett View Post
                  Scott,

                  Told here before, but may help make your point with Rusty Student:

                  IFR/IMC going to KPNE from KAGC, I got sent off V12, direct LRP, ... I tuned and idented LRP, which is co-located with KLNS, and has the same name, "Lancaster". Being too familiar with the area, I plugged "LNS" (note the missing "K"), and not the less-familiar "LRP" into the yoke mount GPS. GPS and VOR courses diverged by about 5 degrees. I decided to stay with the VOR needle, figuring that's what the controller at Harrisburg Approach expected. Good thing I did.

                  Flying along, the VOR/GPS divergence increased slightly, while I was expecting a decrease.as I got closer. Then I took a another look at the GPS. I still had 4000+ NM to fly to the LNS NDB in Brazil.

                  As Radny says, "Pay 'tenshun, Lt!"
                  GIGO, right?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Scott Dyer HPN/NY View Post

                    An airborne abacus works just fine
                    Chuckle, chuckle, thinking back how's that gonna help with DAH's and DIT's?

                    _... . ... _

                    randy
                    Last edited by Randy Sohn; 08-13-2019, 16:06.

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                    • #11
                      >>> Calculators? Why? An airborne abacus works just fine.

                      Nope! No math in the cockpit if you can help it. Too distracting and error-prone. Work out the hard parts on the ground before departure and have the solutions on your kneeboard.
                      Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here, we should dance.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ray Tackett View Post
                        >>> Calculators? Why? An airborne abacus works just fine.

                        Nope! No math in the cockpit if you can help it. Too distracting and error-prone. Work out the hard parts on the ground before departure and have the solutions on your kneeboard.
                        Ray -- I think that John was teasing, and so was I.....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ray Tackett View Post
                          Work out the hard parts on the ground before departure
                          When I saw the student having done that, thar's when I'd have him go over to some other airport.

                          best, randy

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