Panel Plans

[Terry Carraway]

So, finally managed to find a reasonable airplane and buy it. So, looking at plans for the panel over the next year or so.

Trying to plan a path forward for a new, to me, plane.

Current panel is GTN-650 (non-Xi), G5, Aspen 1000, GTX-345, King Nav/Com, King audio panel, KAP-150 autopilot with 297B Alt Hold/Capture, King ADF, JPI EDM-700, Stormscope.

I have run across a pretty good deal on a GTN-750 (non-Xi) and GMA-35R remote audio panel.

So thinking:

Step 1 - Add GTN-750, giving me a large nav display. Remove ADF and King Nav/com. Or should I spring for a 750Xi? GMA-35R or PS Engineering?

Step 2 - when funds build up, replace Aspen and JPI and remaining steam gauges with G3X Touch with EIS, keeping G5 as backup and installing GFC-500 autopilot.

Step 3 - upgrade the 650 to Xi at some point

I would love to go remote on the GTX-345, but not sure it is worth the coin to do so.

Does this sound reasonable and somewhat smart?

[Scott Dyer HPN/NY]

Terry - From the options you present, I'd not go for a 750xi.........the extra processing speeds you'll likely never notice, same with the screen resolution. The only feature is the Garmin smart glide to take you within 1000' or so of an airport if you follow the prompts in an engine failure. I'm ok without that as the only xi feature I see that's usable. I am a BIG fan of PS audio panels, just love my 450B. I've got that with a 750. What do you plan to use for a #2 nav/com if you take the King (155?) out? I sure find backups to my 750 useful, and not just as backups.

With the 252 with Aspen and JPI, do the G3x if it floats your boat (can I say that to a USAF guy?) but at least you have good engine instrumentation and an electronic AI/HSI already. I myself find the Aspen to be busy and small, but in a Mooney small is good.....(G,D,R). EIS is PRICEY! Esp. if you go with the CIES fuel senders as recommended by many installers. EIS, GFC-500, new airplane....can I have a loan?

If you've got a 345, I'd keep it. Good remote functionality on the plain old 750, even if the 345 is over on the right side of the panel (and not a remote box).

[A. Niemyer]

I love spending OPM. (Other People's Money) I changed my 650's for 650Xi's last year, and I'm quite pleased with the changes. Plus, they brought back the old 430 "Twist-Hard-Right" knob feature to get to Nearest Airport. It also has the software in it to talk to either a Garmin PFD or a GI275 backup to get you pointed to that nearest airport, even given you major visual cues for descent, etc. or if you have a Garmin AP, get you turned and setting up for a straight in to the best runway, etc. (It's a poor-pilot's version of the "Safe Return" system in Pipers/Cirrus Jets).

That bit aside, my only regret in my setup was that in retrospect, I would have done a 750/650 install, not a dual 650. OTOH, I *love* my PMA450B and would be loathe to lose it. Anyway, when you buy a PS, you're buying from a SigRat. I also put in a Garmin GTX345 for ADSB-IN/OUT both on my iPad and on my GTN650's. (I have Avidyne Entegra and get transponder traffic on the MFD. That's also my engine cluster).

Summary:
- Ditch the B-K POS
- 750/650Xi (Newest software & firmware)
- 345 Transponder
- 275 for backup AI
- PS450B
- Garmin AP mainly for ease of interface

BTW, I strongly endorse NexAir Avionics at Plymouth, MA. An outstanding and highly professional; I've done multiple jobs with them over the years.

Best of luck,
Andy

[Ray Tackett]

Bias disclosure: You're getting this from a steam gauge fan. I liked having an ADF. Philly's KYW antenna is near KLOM. Boston has WBZ. When flying IFR between Philly and Boston I liked having a needle which pointed at the destination. It was part of situational awareness. Out west, the sectionals depict some AM stations to help with the scarcity of navaids. GPS is very nice, but it's a single-point failure, too. The other thing I liked about the ADF was its use as an AM radio. If all the fancy modern glass leaves room for the ADF, I'd keep it until it fails.

[Scott Dyer HPN/NY]

Ray, can you point me to a broadcast station out west that is depicted on the sectional? I just did 3800 nm across the US and didn't see a one. Better than ADF (with next to 0 approaches available) is XM radio! MON provides a backup to GPS.

[John O'Shaughnessy [FCM]]

Looking to be a very lively thread (for this forum, anyway).

Last fall, our club voted to do substantial panel upgrades to all six of our aircraft. Our C172's each got a pair of GI-275 units. Very nice, very compact, very feature rich -- still, just two 3" instruments though.

The C182s and C210s each have (or will have -- only the C182's are done so far) a 10" Garmin G3X Touch, along with a G5 for backup. We've kept the JPI engine instruments, so didn't pay for that feature-set for the G3X. We also already had Garmin GTN650s and GTX345s in each of the six aircraft. We have STEC autopilots in the 6 six-cylinder aircraft.

All I can say, is the new panel is excellent! Something must have also been upgraded on the GTN 650, and we get new, additional alerts there (such as TOD, etc.). The panel takes a while to learn, and it has many, many options -- even an option to display a standard-looking 6 pack!

I'm happy to answer questions. Click on the image for full size image.

[Russell Holton]

GPS is very nice, but it's a single-point failure, too.

Considering the dustup in Ukraine and China showing signs of getting frisky, a GPS failure is not unthinkable.

[Ray Tackett]

Ray, can you point me to a broadcast station out west that is depicted on the sectional? I just did 3800 nm across the US and didn't see a one. Better than ADF (with next to 0 approaches available) is XM radio! MON provides a backup to GPS.

Could be they have been deleted since I last flew out that way. There were a few in NM and AZ. One was near Ganado, AZ, on 800-something. While typing this, I tried to look at the Albuquerque sectional, but the PDF would not display.

[B.Butler]

Ray, can you point me to a broadcast station out west that is depicted on the sectional?

Took me 20 seconds to find this one. Got Giants baseball too!

[Scott Dyer HPN/NY]

Thanks, Bill...must be almost all gone. Odd they'd put the callsign and freq on the Bay area sectional (or TAC), not exactly a shortage of navaids there. Go to Skyvector.com Ray, all the IFR and VFR enroutes are there.

[B.Butler]

Thanks, Bill...must be almost all gone.

I think your point is valid. I looked for a couple others I recall from the dark ages and didn't find them. I suspect that KNBR is mostly about nostalgia. John Miller still reigns supreme there.

[Steve Hguabmots]

Considering the dustup in Ukraine and China showing signs of getting frisky, a GPS failure is not unthinkable.

At that point 'request radar vectors' seems appropriate!

[Russell Holton]

At that point 'request radar vectors' seems appropriate!

Yes, but would the major players be any better off? ATC could be overloaded trying to get everyone down safely.

[Terry Carraway]

Secondary com will be the 650. Eventually will probably make both boxes Xi. The delta between a used 750 and new 750Xi is not that great. Install princes will be the same. Just no reason to not put in the latest and greatest.

For now, I am leaning to upgrading the JPI 700 to an 830. Uses the same installed sensors, just add MAP, RPM, Oil Temp and Pressure and OAT. Still have to keep the original gauges as primary. But unit is only $1300 (on sale), plus the new sensors. And a lot less install cost. Later can go JPI 900 or Garmin EIS.

I misspoke. No ADF. I would have considered keeping it. Same if it had a DME.

Are you saying I can control the GTX-345 from the 750, even if it is not the Remote version? That will help the panel space if I can move it to the right, but control it without reaching

A lot of PS Engineering here.

[Scott Dyer HPN/NY]

Terry - I can set code, ident, change my N number or other flight id, via the 750 with the 345 located in the panel on the right. Truth be told, outside of changing my call sign, I just reach over to the 345 and do everything.