New Message notification

[Russell Holton]

How it's hit a number of section. It appears something is messing up the "cached" copy of the "read" flag. The question is "what"?

[Robert Dubner]

...and I can't help but sit here feeling a certain level of contentment. Some might even call me smug, but some don't fully understand how enlightened I am.

I run my program. It scans my locally stored message file, looking for the youngest message. It downloads and saves new messages, "new" being defined as "younger than the prior youngest". It shows me the first new one. I press Enter. It shows me the next new one. I press Enter again....

The web has taught us to put up with poor user interfaces.

[Russell Holton]

...and I can't help but sit here feeling a certain level of contentment. Some might even call me smug, but some don't fully understand how enlightened I am.

This isn't a user interface problem. This is a bug. I'd find it unlikely it's the fault of vBulletin. If it was, there's be a patch for it rather quickly. More likely, it's some add-on customization acting up.

[Terry Carraway]

I frequent other forums that run vBulletin, and have not seen this issue on any of them.

[Nancy Zeitlin]

This isn't a user interface problem. This is a bug. I'd find it unlikely it's the fault of vBulletin. If it was, there's be a patch for it rather quickly. More likely, it's some add-on customization acting up.

Call it a bug, anomaly, feature, TITSUP, or whatever. The bottom line is that the web interface is like the QWERTY keyboard: Designed to slow the user down to the lowest tolerable rate, while giving the appearance of rationality.

Anyone that “grew up” using TapCis knows that there’s a better way, and Bob has kept it alive in AVSIG while battling *almost* unsurmountable obstacles.

[Russell Holton]

Anyone that “grew up” using TapCis knows that there’s a better way,

Maybe so, but most computer people will attest that one of the deadly sins in computing is to stray too far from a standard. Besides, this "better way" is being judged against a modified standard that clearly has a bug. Like Terry, I've been around a number of forums and have not seen this kind of problem - at least not to this degree.

For now, I think I'll change my forum preference to "Avsig" which seems to be a closer to the default "vBulletin" layout. I'll see if that helps.

[Nancy Zeitlin]

Maybe so, but most computer people will attest that one of the deadly sins in computing is to stray too far from a standard.

“ The nice thing about standards is that you have so many to choose from. “
Andrew S Tanenbaum

[Mike Overly]

I still believe this is a caching issue related to devices in use and open browser sessions. We have three separate means of message notification (New Since Last Visit, Recent Posts, and the highlighted flags before message headers containing unread messages). The AVSIG color/style option shouldn’t have an effect on message filtering – all the themes are built off the vBulletin base stylesheet, and the only customization between styles is cosmetic.

Let’s try something. I’m going to zap the “New Since Last Visit” module as well as the "Jump To" module, leaving only the “Recent Posts” filter in the header bar and the native section flag unread message notification up. Now, when you miss a message notification, please report whether the missing notification was in “Recent Posts,” “Message Header Flag” or “Both.” Also, please note whether this circumstance occurred in a clean browser visit, an open browser that actively has AVSIG up in a window during its session, or an open browser that at any time had an active AVSIG session in it. Also note whether AVSIG is open on any other device you use or was open in a browser window that’s still open on one of those devices (but only in cases the browser is a device-shared browser login [common Chrome login on a phone and laptop, for instance]).

[Russell Holton]

I still believe this is a caching issue related to devices in use and open browser sessions.

How so? In the past, I've seen a false flag set for "In Memoriam" which hasn't had a post in the last 6 months. Yes, I do have multiple browser windows open on multiple devices, but none of those sessions are older than a few days. It's not a case where I'm seeing something lit up simply because my browser session is old. And when it happens, it affects all my sessions and persists for multiple days, so the information is somehow written into my account on the forum, not just in one browser's cookies. As such, my suspicion is one of the add-on modules. I'm sure they read the "new" flags, but why any of them would write something back to it, I don't know.

[Mike Overly]

How so? In the past, I've seen a false flag set for "In Memoriam" which hasn't had a post in the last 6 months. Yes, I do have multiple browser windows open on multiple devices, but none of those sessions are older than a few days. It's not a case where I'm seeing something lit up simply because my browser session is old. And when it happens, it affects all my sessions and persists for multiple days, so the information is somehow written into my account on the forum, not just in one browser's cookies. As such, my suspicion is one of the add-on modules. I'm sure they read the "new" flags, but why any of them would write something back to it, I don't know.

A "false" unread message notification is likely another issue entirely -- namely using the browser back arrow or otherwise exiting the message window without navigating back through the parent directory. (In the case of "In Memoriam" that would entail navigating to the Home/AVSIG/In Memoriam tree at the top-upper-left of the page just under "Forum" on the nav bar and clicking any one of those three links to back out). Sig II also needed this exit strategy.

If you are backing out via this method and refreshing your view of AVSIG in other open windows/devices, the false flag should clear. I have a few sections I just leave without navigating the section tree -- some still showing "unread" messages since January, but if I navigate out per above the unread flag is gone no matter how I log into the forum.

[Russell Holton]

A "false" unread message notification is likely another issue entirely -- namely using the browser back arrow or otherwise exiting the message window without navigating back through the parent directory. (In the case of "In Memoriam" that would entail navigating to the Home/AVSIG/In Memoriam tree at the top-upper-left of the page just under "Forum" on the nav bar and clicking any one of those three links to back out). Sig II also needed this exit strategy.

The problem I'm seeing is a new false 'unread message' indication for a section (lit up icon). A few days ago, "In Memoriam" lit up. I can go into the section and back out via clicking on 'AVSIG' in the top left corner and it won't go away. (Clicking "back" buttons in browsers can cause all kinds of problems.) The only fix I've found is to actually open a message (any message) in the section and back out. That seems to force the system into actually checking to see if there's any unread messages in the section. Only after that will the section icon turn to gray. I have to repeat that process for each section before everything is back to normal.

My theory is that the forum software is caching the status flags somewhere on the server. Something is corrupting them (false unread). The forum software clings to it's cached flags as the truth until a read a message in that section. Then will go and re-assess the situation.

But that said, it's also possible that the same bug could cause a false "nothing new" indication. It's just corrupting the flags in a different direction.

[Mike Overly]

The problem I'm seeing is a new false 'unread message' indication for a section (lit up icon). A few days ago, "In Memoriam" lit up. I can go into the section and back out via clicking on 'AVSIG' in the top left corner and it won't go away. (Clicking "back" buttons in browsers can cause all kinds of problems.) The only fix I've found is to actually open a message (any message) in the section and back out. That seems to force the system into actually checking to see if there's any unread messages in the section. Only after that will the section icon turn to gray. I have to repeat that process for each section before everything is back to normal.

My theory is that the forum software is caching the status flags somewhere on the server. Something is corrupting them (false unread). The forum software clings to it's cached flags as the truth until a read a message in that section. Then will go and re-assess the situation.

But that said, it's also possible that the same bug could cause a false "nothing new" indication. It's just corrupting the flags in a different direction.

I'm still not replicating any of that on this end, but you know what they say about the test drive with the mechanic in the car -- I'll keep a few browsers out on the street. Another option for bulls-eyeing each section I neglected to include above: "Mark This Channel Read" -- which is at the bottom of each open section (channel).

[Terry Carraway]

The problem I'm seeing is a new false 'unread message' indication for a section (lit up icon). A few days ago, "In Memoriam" lit up. I can go into the section and back out via clicking on 'AVSIG' in the top left corner and it won't go away. (Clicking "back" buttons in browsers can cause all kinds of problems.) The only fix I've found is to actually open a message (any message) in the section and back out. That seems to force the system into actually checking to see if there's any unread messages in the section. Only after that will the section icon turn to gray. I have to repeat that process for each section before everything is back to normal.

This is the same thing I have seen a couple of times.

Yes, I access AVSIG from different computers. But I always close the browser session when done.

And I follow a couple of other forums that run vBulletin, and have not seen this happen on any of them.

[Scott Dyer HPN/NY]

This is the same thing I have seen a couple of times.

Yes, I access AVSIG from different computers. But I always close the browser session when done.

And I follow a couple of other forums that run vBulletin, and have not seen this happen on any of them.

Same with me.

Mike, how long will the new since last visit module be down? Unfortunately, after it was disabled, Ward tried to access Avsig after a 6 week or more hiatus due to illness, and he couldn’t see what was new (he relies on that list). Is there a way for him to reset in effect his high message number (old tap is terminology) after you re-enable the module so he can get an accurate listing?

When he and I spoke by phone I had no idea why he wasn’t seeing the list as I had seen it earlier in the morning before leaving on a trip. At least now I know why.

[Mike Overly]

Same with me.

Mike, how long will the new since last visit module be down? Unfortunately, after it was disabled, Ward tried to access Avsig after a 6 week or more hiatus due to illness, and he couldn’t see what was new (he relies on that list). Is there a way for him to reset in effect his high message number (old tap is terminology) after you re-enable the module so he can get an accurate listing?

When he and I spoke by phone I had no idea why he wasn’t seeing the list as I had seen it earlier in the morning before leaving on a trip. At least now I know why.

I didn't have a time frame in mind, but I would like to eliminate some variables while we're chasing down where and how people are missing new notifications or seeing false new notifications. Tell Ward to click the "Recent Posts" (Right-hand part of the navigation bar) in the meantime. Or he can use Search/Advanced Search and set a message age range. Continued thanks for running our Hudson Corridor tech support .